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Chicago Winner

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Chicago Winner

Post by Tim Fortner on September 13th 2014, 10:17 am

Jason Martin

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Last edited by Tim Fortner on September 28th 2014, 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total


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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Tim Fortner on September 13th 2014, 10:18 am

Congrats......


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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Guest on September 14th 2014, 5:13 am

Again, well done Jason. Another race, and yet again, your blazing fast.

I just can't grasp how you guys are so fast! I'd like to see a survey by top drivers and what equipment they use, because I think something else is affecting my performance besides lack of skill and track time. I know I'm not a bad driver, but dang if I know how to get faster aside from track time. But I'm hard-headed and refuse to believe it will take me 3-5 YEARS to get that fast.

Crap race at a crap track. Even after I have managed to increase speed here (ran 32.07 in Friday's practice race!), it's not even close to being enough. I feel like a bottom split driver (wait, I AM a bottom split driver!) trying to race against top split drivers. I'm a realist. It will never work.

And I'm getting tired of being thanked every race for moving over for faster cars. It's part of racing, but I didn't plan on getting good at getting passed. That's just plain depressing.

It's been fun, but I'm not sure I should continue this series. The competition is WAY to fast for me to keep up. I like to think I'm learning but I'm not. I'm just getting beat bad. That's no fun week in and week out. Feel like a start and park! And the reality is that there is no quick fix to suddenly make me competitive.

Those of you who have offered help, I REALLY appreciate it. But your not here to teach others, nor am I here to be taught, but to be competitive, which I'm not. So I think I need to go race against people my own speed.

I'll take a step back and re-evaluate my racing, think it over this week, but most likely, I'm gonna withdraw from Early Bird.

I've enjoyed it guys. You got a nice bunch here. Love the race respect shown. Wish there were much more of that in iRacing races, but leagues don't help the license any, so we must endure.

Tim, well done sir! Got nothing but positives to tell people about Early Bird.

Thank you,

Chris Jackson #85

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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Jason Martin on September 14th 2014, 7:00 am

Thx guys another good long green flag race.
I like the setups that are a bit loose and require throttle control.

Throttle control and using the wheel as little as possible are the secrets to being fast.
Sorry to say equipment makes no difference.

I use a cheap logitech dfgt wheel.
I used the crap plastic pedals that were so sensitive they were pretty much just on or off.
I changed about a year ago to clubsport v2 pedals but still using the same wheel.
Single screen.
Ray Alfala an ex iracing DWC used the same wheel and pedals.
I am no faster with the clubsport pedals than before and am actually slightly slower on short tracks due to the brake not being so sensitive.
All i gained with the new pedals is its easier to be more consistent.

Hang in there Chris.
Try to follow the faster guys in practice.
See where they are gaining time and then try to do the same.
Forget about trying to win for now.
Use the series as a chance to improve and learn.
Will learn more by racing faster guys and paying close attention to what they are doing compared to you, than you will learn racing guys the same speed as you.

I checked out a lap of yours in iSpeed.
You are fine in turns 1-2.
Line is good and you were only about .100 seconds slower than me in split 1.
That time is gained by throttle control and getting better exits off turn4.
Turn 3-4 is where you were losing most time.
You are turning the wheel too much, forcing it to go where you want it instead of just guiding it in to where you want it.
Turning the wheel too much washes off speed,hurts tyres and makes you slower.
Look closely at my lap on ispeed and look how much i work the throttle.
Every corner im constantly using throttle control to keep control of the car.
The wheel is only used to help guide the car to where i want it to go, never force it to go where i want it.

Speed on ovals is made from turn exit to next turns entry.
Most common mistake for some is overdriving the entries and carrying too much speed midturn.
Sure it helps you go faster into the turn but it kills your exit and straightline speed which is where all the time is gained.
On ovals better to be slower on entry/midturn to be sure you can get the fastest exits possible.
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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Tim Fortner on September 14th 2014, 11:46 am

Chris Jackson, Sorry that you feel this way. I will leave it up to you to remove yourself from the league. We are here to have fun and hopefully learn as we go. If you are not having fun and willing to learn and get better over time, then it's best to move on.  


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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Guest on September 15th 2014, 3:24 am

If you are not having fun and willing to learn and get better over time, then it's best to move on. 

(sorry for the long post!)

I have had some fun, it's like I said, no fun constantly getting passed by most of the field.

Not willing to learn? I think you misunderstand Tim. That's not at all what I said. The very reason I sought out a league was to learn without getting dinged on the license. Willing to learn is all I am right now!!!

I said..."But your not here to teach others, nor am I here to be taught, but to be competitive, which I'm not..."

I did not mean I'm not willing. I meant to say I didn't come here expecting for faster guys to teach me anything. Teaching is not why you guys are here are you? It's a league, not a school. If somebody offers advice, I do my best to listen. Jason has stepped up of his own accord, and I really appreciate that. THAT to me isn't teaching so much as just offering to help, which shows a kindness that is rare. I hope you get even faster Jason, you deserve it.

My biggest enemy is me, and my high expectations of myself. I have to keep telling myself I'm still raw in sim racing. This is my first foray into sim racing, ever. I've been racing since March. I come from military shooter FPS type gaming.

I'm a regular NASCAR fan, watch the Cup races, and some Xfinity and Trucks as well. Not much applies to iRacing, but a lot does, as far as racing in general goes. It's funnyhow yesterday they were talking about in the Cup race about the bumps in the middle of 3-4, and I thought, "Yeah, I know! You can avoid them if...", which I've done and I got faster. So some does translate.

Lately I've read a lot of posts on hardware, and from that I tend to agree that hardware will not make a person much faster if at all. HOWEVER, the one word I keep seeing people use, and you did it here Jason, and that's "consistent", from using better pedal sets.

I too use the DFGT wheel and pedals. All I can afford now.

What I've read about the more expensive pedals, is that they do a better job of simulating pedal response through a progression of resistance, but of course there is no real "feel" in the pedal, like with manual brakes in a real car. But many people claim like yoou Jason, more expensive pedals in the end won't make you faster.

Yes, I'm aware of Alfalfa using DFGT set for his two championships. He doesn't use them any more though. Some talent, equipment isn't an issue. They'd win with a broom handle and some duct tape!

I never entered this league thinking I'd be competing for wins. But I did expect to at least be somewhat competitive, and get better as the season went. I didn't know what level of competition is here. My bad, should have checked it out better.

We are half way through the season, and I have maintained where I'm at, more or less, and that's 6-8th on the board, with a time difference so large, those I'm running behind I simply will not catch. I'd be naive to think I can run with the top 5. I can't. Not any time soon. SO, that means I don't stand a chance in hell head to head of doing any better than where I'm at. That is realistic. Don't blow smoke up my backside and tell me I'm doing great, I'm not. I am getting better, I know that, but I must be honest with myself, and realistic and not set my expectations so high.

To me, it's not fun being in a competition I have zero chance in. I've seen enough here to know, I have zero chance in this league with the quality talent here. I know leagues are tough to get people, but as it is, Early Bird is an A league in effect, and I think lower level people see that and go somewhere else. I'm not going to kid myself and try like some do to run the A car, when I'm not ready to leave even the trucks.

The only reason I plan on moving to the B car as soon as I get my B license is because of starting to learn setting up cars. I am currently working with an A driver who runs the B car. We also have started to learn spotting for each other also. He's not expert, but he does know quite a bit about Motec and telemetry. I'm a tech geek, and so is he and we are both ex-US Navy, so learning setups is right down my alley. Us sailors tend to think alike.

Jason, I've looked at iSpeed and your fast times. What stood out is how your wheel inputs are really "spikey". It's not a smooth sine wave. Much rougher than mine. It's like your jerking the wheel a lot. My wheel inputs aren't exactly smooth either, with a lot of small spikes throughout, which looks to me like my wheel has a constant vibration or something. I also notice my marks were too late on entry, so I backed off and got a little faster.

By racing faster cars, it does motivate you to try harder, but what is there to learn from cars passing? How to stay out of the way? I'm pretty darn good at that already! Wink  I cannot tell how those drivers are managing their pedals unless I use iSpeed or Motec. Just running laps isn't enough.

I can follow a car all day long, but if they are faster, that will only last a couple laps and they are gone, just like it's been. No one learns from that except humility.

Turns 1-2 I feel is better, but I still think I'm leaving time there. Turns 3-4? Yep, totally agree. I still haven't quite found the best line, though I know I'm close. Not consistent there at all. I've seen flashes of it. Following when I can, and watching replays helps, but applying it is where it counts. I'm not very good yet at applying what I'm seeing, but that too has improved.

Turning the wheel too much in 3-4, yes, I agree, I'm getting tight trying to get down to the line where the speed is. That problem is a result of my bad entry, I know. Sometimes I hit it just right and it sticks down there and my time drops. I've also tried delaying entry a touch before I drop down to the line, and am more gradual with it, and that has helped too. If I allow the car to go where it wants, I'm in the outside wall. Not sure how to "guide it". If it gets loose, I let off the gas, if it gets tight, I let off the gas till I get control back. And that means slower times.

Yes, over-driving the entry is my current biggest mistake. I'll get better at it for sure, in time.

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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Jason Martin on September 15th 2014, 4:03 am

hmmm heres my steering inputs. 
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The very small jolts are because i have my forcefeedback fairly high, other than that it looks pretty smooth to me(lightblue lines)

Heres my acceleration graph
 http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
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Yep thats spikey because im constantly using throttle control to keep control of car and help steer it.
I try to feel what the car is doing, if i need it to turn in a bit more i give the gas a bit of a squirt, if i feel its starting to push or get loose i get off it a bit then back on it.

Probably the most important equipment in simracing is a decent computer that gives 80+fps and a decent low ms monitor.
Really want a 1ms or 2ms monitor 

I dont know how you guys have the skills to talk on mic and drive at the same time.
I find it hard pushing a button down to talk,while steering and using my feet so much.
So im not normally much help in a server but if anyone wants help or some tips etc im more than happy to help as much as possible in forums, via email etc.

Im trying to help a fellow Aussie right now.
Im sending him replays and ghost laps to drive against then checking out his laps in ispeed to try and help him get more speed.

So if anyone wants them i could put them in the forums on a tuesday or wednesday so that you guys can check them out and practice against them etc before the race on the weekend.
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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Tim Fortner on September 15th 2014, 4:59 am

Chris, I plan to host a few training sessions in the off season. Maybe Jason and others will agree to come teach us some of what they know.


Last edited by Tim Fortner on September 15th 2014, 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Guest on September 15th 2014, 6:59 am

My wheel, 20% FFB, 100% dampen, 5% min

So the spikes in mine are FFB.

I have a 24" 16x9 5ms monitor.

i5 3.3ghz chip.

4GB DDR3 ram

Radion HD 5750 1 GB card



Training sessions sounds good Tim.

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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by James A Tyler on September 15th 2014, 8:43 am

Your a better driver than your giving yourself credit for Chris. I'm in that same boat, I don't stand a chance against the likes of Teddy,Christopher and Jason but there are some on the grid that I can run with so that's where I set my race goals. I watch the replays for a better line to run and than try to focus on my weak points like pit entry and exit. The other thing that makes racing fun for me are the people. How many times have you been in a public room and got dressed down by a 12 year old for something he caused lol. Good luck on whatever you decide.
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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Guest on September 15th 2014, 2:14 pm

James A Tyler wrote:Your a better driver than your giving yourself credit for Chris. I'm in that same boat, I don't stand a chance against the likes of Teddy,Christopher and Jason but there are some on the grid that I can run with so that's where I set my race goals. I watch the replays for a better line to run and than try to focus on my weak points like pit entry and exit. The other thing that makes racing fun for me are the people. How many times have you been in a public room and got dressed down by a 12 year old for something he caused lol. Good luck on whatever you decide.  

We all know how that goes! I have had a run of incidents with the driver that is new to the series, 2 or 3 recently have been new to the license that week. And that's why I want to run leagues, at least those like here at Early Bird where the drivers are better and I know what the drivers will likely do on track, so I can learn while not affecting my license or constantly having to avoiding wrecks.

Yeah, what to work on in practice, and how to work on it, is still something I'm trying to get set as a routine, like pitting, or practicing running all high line or all low line to get more comfortable for when it happens in a race, which it will happen, because we aren't able to run THE line the whole race.

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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Tim Fortner on September 15th 2014, 3:47 pm

Chris Jackson wrote:My wheel, 20% FFB, 100% dampen, 5% min

So the spikes in mine are FFB.

I have a 24" 16x9 5ms monitor.

i5 3.3ghz chip.

4GB DDR3 ram

Radion HD 5750 1 GB card



Training sessions sounds good Tim.


Chris., Try these wheel settings with 4or5% min and Dampen turned off.


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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by spud68 on September 15th 2014, 7:08 pm

First... Congrats on the great win Jason.

Second.. Hang in there Chris!  I remember when I started I ran a couple of league seasons before I could even come close to keeping up.  I have been racing since 1998 starting with Nascar 99 thru today.  and I am on here turning laps at least 2 hours almost EVERY night.  If you look at my stats in the 3 years on Iracing I have turned over 55,000 Official race laps (doesn't count the hours of testing/practice). 

I somewhat agree with Jason that equipment doesn't have a lot to do with it but I will tell you that I gained some consistency when I upgraded my computer to something that could handle pretty decent graphics and maintain good framrates.  triple screens helped some.  but I have been smoked by guys with far less.

I know I'm not the fastest guy but I work very hard to be a very consistent driver and that comes with a lot of practice. 

My advice for anyone looking for improvement is first work on being consistent (being able to run a full fuel run without wrecking).  Then the speed will come.

If you ever want to practice/test let me know and I'll set up a server.

Teddy


Last edited by spud68 on September 15th 2014, 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by spud68 on September 15th 2014, 7:19 pm

My specs are:

T500 RS wheel
Homemade hydraulic pedals
Triple 24 Inch screens
AMD FX6300 CPU
16 GB RAM
7970 GB video card
home made cockpit with seat from the junkyard hard mounted.

I usually run steady 83 FPS at most tracks

My settings are at 6-8% FFB  If I go above 12% my wheel starts clipping and you loose FFB feel when that occurs.
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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Guest on September 16th 2014, 3:48 am

Thanks Teddy for the input. Your stats, and others here do put it perspective, as I haven't run even 100 races TOTAL for a total lap count of just over 3200 laps. I keep reminding myself of that fact. I'm just getting started!

I do run a lot of practice. By the time I race, I'd say I've run over 300 laps for the week, sometimes much more like this week. That's not counting any league practice. I don't have a problem running a fuel load without incidents. I can turn clean laps, which has been my main goal from the start, to run clean to keep my SR above 3.50. It hasn't dropped lower than 3.0 since I joined.

In fact, got my SR back up to 3.97 with a clean 9th place in iRacing yesterday. I know, I know, don't sweat the license numbers. People say that all the time, but my goal is in part to keep my license numbers as high as I can. SR first, then the IR will follow as I get better. Ultimately, I want to make a run for a pro license so I need that SR as high as possible. It's my goal. If you don't strive for the best, why bother, right?

As for my pc, it's not obviously top shelf, but it ain't bad either. I run over 100 FPS easily, though I limit it to I think about 85, and I have most stuff on low detail. I haven't had any issues in that respect.

16GB of ram? To my knowledge, that's waste of ram by at least 4GB. Virtually no program out there that the average person would use, uses that much ram, including iRacing. Max ram is 4GB, while the GPU memory is higher, but I think max is 12GB. I'll check my sources to confirm.

My background in video game development I would use Photoshop, and several 3d applications such as 3ds Max and Maya, and I'd have all of them open at the same time, all while running just 2GB of ram. PS is ram hungry but it can be adjusted some as well as Max and Maya, but no way those will use 16GB of ram. Will not happen. We are still mostly based on 32 bit systems that max out at 4GB, so most programs aren't designed to use more than 4GB.

Wheel settings is something I've played around with, usually changing it to suit the track. I run a ratio of between 400 short tracks to 700-800 for speedways. So far, I have found I prefer some FFB, but not a lot. I tried those settings Jason posted, WAY too "soft". It felt like I had no connection to the car. So I settled on 12% FFB, 0% dampen, and 4% min. We'll see how that goes.

Eventually I'll get a rig built, with car seat chair, etc. Don't need a dash with instruments but I want it especially for the buttons. Tired of fighting the keyboard while in car. What a pain trying to steer and use the mouse! I'm drooling over Derek Spears 64 input boards!!! Now that kind of stuff is my background from the Navy, working on electronics and electricity. My plan is to build button boxes for people in the future. 

To give you an idea, my smaller monitor on my other pc I fixed when the capacitors went out. Broke out my soldier gun and replaced 5 caps, back up and running fine. Cost me the capacitors that totaled less than $5 dollars.

I wouldn't want anybody to set up a server just for me to practice one on one, that's silly, but maybe we can get a few together and have a little session where several of us can benefit. A closed private session would be nice, away from the riff raff that jump into any open servers and play bumper cars!

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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Tim Fortner on September 17th 2014, 4:07 pm

Chris Jackson wrote:

Wheel settings is something I've played around with, usually changing it to suit the track. I run a ratio of between 400 short tracks to 700-800 for speedways. So far, I have found I prefer some FFB, but not a lot. I tried those settings Jason posted, WAY too "soft". It felt like I had no connection to the car. So I settled on 12% FFB, 0% dampen, and 4% min. We'll see how that goes.


Chris, You should set your wheel to 900 degrees, iRacing will adjust automatically per car.


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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Guest on September 18th 2014, 3:53 am

How would I do that? I assume in the wheel profiler, and just let iRacing set it in sim?

I haven't noticed it changing anything track to track. It doesn't seem to change unless I manually change it.

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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Tim Fortner on September 18th 2014, 4:10 pm

Chris Jackson wrote:How would I do that? I assume in the wheel profiler, and just let iRacing set it in sim?

I haven't noticed it changing anything track to track. It doesn't seem to change unless I manually change it.

iRacing will apply bumpstops automatically that match your car, and it will always work correctly on any car you go to. If you use 400 deg or something else then you will get a different experience as you go from car to car. If you want a faster steering ratio, then the best solution is to continue with your settings.

Set at 900 iRacing software will make the appropriate changes per car. As for preference? up to you. Some prefer a more narrow degree of rotation.



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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Guest on September 19th 2014, 4:47 pm

Okay, I've messed with this wheel range some. Made sure it is set to 900 in the profiler. Also re-calibrated in iRacing to make sure it's mapped to 900. Now it seems like it's responding to the profiler 900 setting, and I'm not getting the quicker wheel response like I was, even when I change it in iRacing to say 500 degrees. Having it at 900 degrees is WAY to slow a response. Might be okay on a super speedway, but nothing smaller.

I do notice the wheel seems like it's a tighter response at 500, but not much really from 900. I cannot imagine running at 900 on small tracks. You have to turn the wheel nearly a full rotation for any effective response.

Maybe I'm missing something?

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Re: Chicago Winner

Post by Jason Martin on September 20th 2014, 5:18 am

My settings are 
Logitech profiler
100% overall effects
0% spring effects
100% damper
enable center spring ticked but 0%deg rotation 900

In Iracing
900deg
FFB 13.4
linear ticked
Damping 10%
min force 10.8
Always use 12.0 steering ratio in setup options.

If 900 takes too much to get used to change it to 6 or 700
You should probably set it to exactly the same level in logitech profiler and ingame imo.

Changing deg of rotation for each track is not a good idea and wont help you find any consistency with your steering inputs if you are constantly turning wheel different amounts and getting different reactions.

Quicker wheel response will mean less smoothness and forcing the car to turn quicker instead of letting it turn
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